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Eryn Suun
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re: Bit coin

wow, never knew that, thanks for the information.

It would not be anything I would invest in.


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Intrepid Corsair
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re: Bit coin

The Spectaroonius wrote:
....but as Intrepid observed, they are backing their fiat currency with guns.


I said that did I?


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re: Bit coin

Well I wish I'd've gotten into some before it skyrocketed. I don't have much fluid money so it'd be pointless to try to invest now.

If bitcoin becomes a real thing then we're getting into a realm of virtual currency and investment ... which I think is not that good?

But yeah like Spectus mentioned above, I think i'm still better with my retirement/mutual funds so I am grateful.


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Bazak12
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re: Bit coin

mmm, bitcoin is in a bit of a pickle atm, its dropped a few grand in value per coin, i don't see it sticking around, at least not at its current value, considering some of the things ive read.

btw free, bitcoin has been a real thing for a while, people do actually trade using it, same with other crypto currencies, as far as virtual currency and investment goes, the only real difference at this point between the US dollar and something like bitcoin is that it is backed by the US government and lots of banks have a lot of their wealth tied up in it. those pieces of paper have the same intrinsic value as numbers in a computer (well to be fair we could use them to wall paper stuff and as toilet paper, and the stuff is pretty durable nowadays, probably make things out of it too, so in a pinch it could have some uses.) the dollar isn't backed by gold anymore.
Vadis
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re: Bit coin

Spectus wrote:
My first rule of investing is, don't invest in something I don't understand.

Second rule (this one I made up for myself) is, if it's getting a lot of hype, it's overvalued and due for a major price correction and/or collapse.

Third rule is, if it's based in something immoral or has a history as such, God will strike it down. Generally, He will do so in a way that takes down many of its devotees as well, in a way that serves as an object lesson.

The elephant in the room concerning cryptocurrencies is the various legal-tender laws around the world. IF I were involved in cryptocurrencies, I would proceed as though my government could declare them unlawful tender at any time. With no prior notice. As if their fiat-money Fed notes are any better, but as Intrepid observed, they are backing their fiat currency with guns.


"To Spectus, you listen!" --In Yoda voice

In for a profit, hey? Can't fault you there, but it does seem more like speculating than actual investing. Phrases like "Dutch Tulips," "greater fool theory," and "another bubble" come to mind. Am glad you didn't bet the farm on it. I can see it being a fun(?) or educational experience, but would only do this with "fun money." There are several things I would do BEFORE I would do Bitcoin:

INVESTMENT ORDER

WHAT
0. Establish an emergency fund to your satisfaction
1. Contribute to your 401k up to any company match
2. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~5% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.
3. Max HSA
4. Max Traditional IRA or Roth (or backdoor Roth) based on income level
5. Max 401k (if 401k fees are lower than available in an IRA, or if you need the 401k deduction to be eligible for a tIRA, swap #4 and #5)
6. Fund a mega backdoor Roth if applicable.
7. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~3% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.
8. Invest in a taxable account with any extra.

WHY
0. Give yourself at least enough buffer to avoid worries about bouncing checks
1. Company match rates are likely the highest percent return you can get on your money
2. When the guaranteed return is this high, take it.
3. HSA funds are totally tax free when used for medical expenses, making the HSA better than either traditional or Roth IRAs for that purpose. At worst, the HSA behaves much the same as a tIRA after age 65.
4. Rule of thumb: traditional if current federal marginal rate is 25%; Roth if 10% or lower, or if MAGI is too high to deduct a traditional IRA; flip a coin otherwise.
5. See #4 for choice of traditional or Roth for 401k. In a 401k there are no income-based limits for deductions or contributions.
6. Applicability depends on the rules for the specific 401k
7. Again, take the risk-free return if high enough. Note that embedded in "high enough" is the assumption that your alternative is "all stocks" or a "fund of funds" (e.g., target retirement date) that provides a blend of stock and bond returns. If you wish to consider separate bond funds, compare the yield on a fund with a duration similar to the time remaining on the loan, and put your money toward the one with the higher interest/yield.
8. Because any earnings, even if taxed, are helpful.


Maybe this could be it's own thread. Maybe not. But I hope the Investment Order above can help. It's certainly helped me. wink


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Joeva.
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re: Bit coin

Jedi Vadis wrote:
Spectus wrote:
My first rule of investing is, don't invest in something I don't understand.

Second rule (this one I made up for myself) is, if it's getting a lot of hype, it's overvalued and due for a major price correction and/or collapse.

Third rule is, if it's based in something immoral or has a history as such, God will strike it down. Generally, He will do so in a way that takes down many of its devotees as well, in a way that serves as an object lesson.

The elephant in the room concerning cryptocurrencies is the various legal-tender laws around the world. IF I were involved in cryptocurrencies, I would proceed as though my government could declare them unlawful tender at any time. With no prior notice. As if their fiat-money Fed notes are any better, but as Intrepid observed, they are backing their fiat currency with guns.


"To Spectus, you listen!" --In Yoda voice

In for a profit, hey? Can't fault you there, but it does seem more like speculating than actual investing. Phrases like "Dutch Tulips," "greater fool theory," and "another bubble" come to mind. Am glad you didn't bet the farm on it. I can see it being a fun(?) or educational experience, but would only do this with "fun money." There are several things I would do BEFORE I would do Bitcoin:

INVESTMENT ORDER

WHAT
0. Establish an emergency fund to your satisfaction
1. Contribute to your 401k up to any company match
2. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~5% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.
3. Max HSA
4. Max Traditional IRA or Roth (or backdoor Roth) based on income level
5. Max 401k (if 401k fees are lower than available in an IRA, or if you need the 401k deduction to be eligible for a tIRA, swap #4 and #5)
6. Fund a mega backdoor Roth if applicable.
7. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~3% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.
8. Invest in a taxable account with any extra.

WHY
0. Give yourself at least enough buffer to avoid worries about bouncing checks
1. Company match rates are likely the highest percent return you can get on your money
2. When the guaranteed return is this high, take it.
3. HSA funds are totally tax free when used for medical expenses, making the HSA better than either traditional or Roth IRAs for that purpose. At worst, the HSA behaves much the same as a tIRA after age 65.
4. Rule of thumb: traditional if current federal marginal rate is 25%; Roth if 10% or lower, or if MAGI is too high to deduct a traditional IRA; flip a coin otherwise.
5. See #4 for choice of traditional or Roth for 401k. In a 401k there are no income-based limits for deductions or contributions.
6. Applicability depends on the rules for the specific 401k
7. Again, take the risk-free return if high enough. Note that embedded in "high enough" is the assumption that your alternative is "all stocks" or a "fund of funds" (e.g., target retirement date) that provides a blend of stock and bond returns. If you wish to consider separate bond funds, compare the yield on a fund with a duration similar to the time remaining on the loan, and put your money toward the one with the higher interest/yield.
8. Because any earnings, even if taxed, are helpful.


Maybe this could be it's own thread. Maybe not. But I hope the Investment Order above can help. It's certainly helped me. wink


Bitcoin seems easier. I know what 401k is but idk what any of that other stuff is.
Intrepid Corsair
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re: Bit coin

I would stay well away from bitcoin if I were you. Invest in something real and tangible like cattle.


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Bazak12
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re: Bit coin

what intrepid said, invest in tasty tasty cattle, at least you can eat that if push comes to shove.
Spectus
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re: Bit coin

Joeva Leo-Woofington McAndersonpants XII wrote:

Bitcoin seems easier. I know what 401k is but idk what any of that other stuff is.

Financial Peace by Dave Ramsey is a must-read for pretty much everyone. He covers all the bases of financial self-management, from recovering from debt to wealth-building.

Did a quick search for the book, and it looks like he's released an updated version of it, with extra chapters on additional topics....

https://www.amazon.com/Financial-Peace-Revisited-Chapters-Marriage/dp/0670032085/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513438686&sr=8-1&keywords=financial+peace+by+dave+ramsey


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